You need effort and grit. All the way up to the phd and postdoc level, that’s what it takes. I’ve seen a lot of gifted classmates and students excel in the beginning, then hit a wall at some point because things got too hard to breeze through and they had no idea how to actually study or deal with frustration/adversity. Once they saw the average kids doing better than them because they actually had these skills, they shut down and that was it. I know gifted kids who dropped out of grade school.
Yes and no. For one, in my experience as a teacher, intelligence isn’t a single metric. There isn’t a line or neat continuum of smart and dumb. Some kid might do fine in math, but can barely read. Another might know a lot about history and can write well, but give them a math problem and they can’t do operations. I myself am pretty smart in all of the school ways, but really dumb when it comes to social things or remembering to do things (AuDHD) A lot of school things are just skills that have to be practiced. Reading, writing, arithmetic, but also how to stay on task, study, manage time, understand, figure things out, critically thinking. Some students are dumb as a post, but they can do the work. Some students are really smart, but they can’t manage themselves or they check out. Others still are relatively normal intelligence, but they simply don’t even try. Intelligence helps, but there are a lot of things that go into a successful student with how our school system works.
@zane
Intelligence here means the ability to generalize concepts and comprehend abstract & complicated tasks, which I think is a very important trait to be successful in school after certain age. I think you can still teach most things to a lot of students, but some students will grasp them a lot faster & ask deeper questions and gain fascination from that, which builds a positive reinforcement cycle. Otherwise if someone is struggling to catch up, then I’d think it would be a frustrating experience that requires more mental ‘grit’ to overcome, which puts them on a disadvantage, you know
You need at least some intelligence, or some perseverance. Preferably both, but I’ve seen people make do with one.
Depends on the school, location, and how you define doing well. If doing well is just graduating, then absolutely not. There are countless schools in the US with no standards that will move people up to the next grade without learning or doing anything until they eventually graduate
Nope. Hard work can make up for a lack of smarts.
Nope, all you need is determination to do well. Most teachers will bend over backward for a kid that gives a crap. Just give a crap and teachers will look out for you.
I was tested very early and labeled as gifted, so I always kind of knew. And yeah, I have seen plenty of people do well in school with average to below average intelligence. It all comes down to discipline, something that I have always sorely lacked. Intelligence is overrated.
@Jane
You need both for challenging majors. I helped other students and used to ask a special Ed teacher for ways to get points across to others having trouble with concepts or memorization. She had ideas and techniques used for mentally handicapped kids I could use for myself and others that could help. Think of coloring books they sell for anatomy and physiology classes, or OC model kits. By helping them I solidified my own understanding so it was an enlightened self interest. I saw people who had to work, with kids and other demands on time improve grades just by getting together once a week for study group. One person I helped out in OC was a pastry chef, so in return she taught me professional baking secrets. We can all lift each other.
I met loads of people of very average intelligence in medical school, but they worked their butts off and put in the hours of study required.
MAC said:
I met loads of people of very average intelligence in medical school, but they worked their butts off and put in the hours of study required.
You don’t truly know their intelligence level and it is actually quite arrogant to assume that you do.
@sheldon
You can’t spend years with people and have a fair idea if they are of average intelligence?
Work ethic over intelligence any day. I had brilliant students who failed every class they had.
If 50% correct is failing then i would recommend being in the top quarter. Or, just lower the standards so that anyone with a pulse can graduate.
That’s an interesting idea, but the trouble is, how do you define your terms? What is “intelligence?” How do you measure it? IQ is deeply flawed and doesn’t even try to measure all sorts of other useful brain functions, like social intelligence (sometimes called “EQ”) or skill in collaboration. What is “well in school?” Is it grades? How long the person remains in academia (ie. the highest degree they achieve)? How much they earn after graduation? The fact is that we combine a lot of brain functions and personality traits under the heading of “intelligence,” but it’s really not that simple at all. Similarly, any question about school runs into the problem that we don’t have broad agreement as a society about what school is for. So… interesting question, but I don’t think it’s really answerable.
@irmah
People get hung up with IQ tests because of the word “intelligence” and I think they should not use that word. It has too many connotations. But IQ tests are not flawed. People figured out that if you give like 50,000 kids a test and then wait 50 years you will notice a strong correlation between doing good on the test and a lot of positive outcomes. The better you do on the test the more likely you are to live longer, the more likely you are to be healthier, the more money you will earn over you lifetime, the more degrees you will get, the less likely you are to go to prison, etc, etc. The list goes on and on. I’m unaware of any negative correlations but there probably are some. But anyway, there’s no reason we have to call this “intelligence”.
@CathyGenesis
Intelligence is so much more complicated and they do very little to predict future IQ scores until later in life. Environment is huge, and intelligence is not fixed. “So, if we’re talking about intelligence as a theoretical underlying potential, then this is a neuro-hit. But if we’re thinking about whether children’s ability to perform in the classroom is fixed, it’s a glorious neuro-miss! Indeed, much cutting edge research in educational neuroscience is currently examining ways that children’s cognitive abilities may be improved through techniques as diverse as mindfulness training, working memory training, learning a musical instrument, increasing aerobic fitness, and learning a second language.”
You don’t even have to show up to pass nowadays.
No, it’s mainly about being willing to memorize useless info to short term memory and being able to recall it one week later.
No- hard work can make up for intelligence, but intelligence can not make up for hard work.