I’m sure most would say yes, but have you ever seen someone who you didn’t think was smart at all do well in school?
Within the range of average? Yes. Someone with a high 85ish+ IQ and strong work ethic can certainly graduate with degrees and whatnot. You’re not going to see people with 80 and below IQ’s do well. Just doesn’t happen. Which is why teaching every student the same curriculum is not effective. It’s a combination, but there are limits.
@holmesben
The US army can only hire someone above IQ of 90ish. They tried drafting men in 70-85 range during Vietnam war and the result was disastrous.
franklyn said:
@holmesben
The US army can only hire someone above IQ of 90ish. They tried drafting men in 70-85 range during Vietnam war and the result was disastrous.
And they’re chronically, desperately, looking for more bodies. And they just need you to drive around or cook food and not mess up. And to them that’s in the big folder of that’s too big of an ask, counter-productive, won’t waste time trying.
franklyn said:
@holmesben
The US army can only hire someone above IQ of 90ish. They tried drafting men in 70-85 range during Vietnam war and the result was disastrous.
10 USC §520: (a) The number of persons originally enlisted or inducted to serve on active duty (other than active duty for training) in any armed force during any fiscal year whose score on the Armed Forces Qualification Test is at or above the tenth percentile and below the thirty-first percentile may not exceed 20 percent of the total number of persons originally enlisted or inducted to serve on active duty (other than active duty for training) in such armed force during such fiscal year. (b) A person who is not a high school graduate may not be accepted for enlistment in the armed forces unless the score of that person on the Armed Forces Qualification Test is at or above the thirty-first percentile; however, a person may not be denied enlistment in the armed forces solely because of his not having a high school diploma if his enlistment is needed to meet established strength requirements. The AFQT is applied as sections of the ASVAB, and the score represents an applicants percentile ranking in the general population. The 31st percentile represents an IQ of approximately 93; the 10th %-ile represents IQ 81. The law dictates a preference for IQ’s above 93, and a prohibition on IQ’s below 81.
@lmason
10th percentile means on average there are 90 out of 100 people who would score above them. They are in the lowest 10 percent. This states not more than 20% of new recruits can be in the lower 30% of the armed forces test…which is different than IQ. Folks with an IQ in the 10-30 percentile would fall in the moderate to mild cognitive impairment. Those with a mild cognitive impairment can maintain some type of employment but those considered moderately cognitively impaired would need specials needs employment. Definitely not military. Source: I’m a special education teacher
@lmason
Wasn’t Project 100000 about enlisting men between 10th - 30th percentile, which is why the army prefers but is almost a soft floor at around 93?
@holmesben
I had a student with a 65-70 IQ not be identified until 11th grade on account of the fact that he worked really hard. Didn’t even graduate on IEP, only a handful of accommodations.
@holmesben
Probably need to be in a standard deviation above normal for engineering and other high pay fields though.
Henry said:
@holmesben
Probably need to be in a standard deviation above normal for engineering and other high pay fields though.
At least know what standard deviation is I think would get you there.
@holmesben
A student who is cooperative, attentive and is willing to put some effort into learning will do well. Its the arrogant, lazy, disruptive kids that don’t do well, even if they are intelligent.
@holmesben
I dunno, I work with some pretty unintelligent people with advanced degrees. I’m kidding. Kind of. But seriously.
EmilyWilson said:
@holmesben
I dunno, I work with some pretty unintelligent people with advanced degrees. I’m kidding. Kind of. But seriously.
I have an IQ two standard deviations above the mean (clinically tested with WAIS-IV) but no one would suspect because I have so many issues that make me outwardly present as unintelligent. Anxiety makes me fumble my words, I’m clumsy, have a nearly nonexistent ability to navigate without a GPS, and the list goes on. But damn am I good at college exams! lol
@sheldon
There’s also unintelligent people with degrees who are just unintelligent. Often people with PhDs are hyper specialized to the point that they think their accomplishments in a narrow specification is reflective of mastery of all domains. Like a Doctor who studied healthcare not material sciences or material engineering offering their opinions on subjects that they’re not exposed to. I’m one of the people who I would describe as a Journeyman of all True Master of none. And it’s alarming how dim some people with advanced degrees can be. A degree doesn’t necessarily indicate advanced intelligence it signals work ethic and compliance to your superiors.
EmilyWilson said:
@holmesben
I dunno, I work with some pretty unintelligent people with advanced degrees. I’m kidding. Kind of. But seriously.
Wall touchers, we have our own brand of unintelligent, it’s just…smarter
EmilyWilson said:
@holmesben
I dunno, I work with some pretty unintelligent people with advanced degrees. I’m kidding. Kind of. But seriously.
I hate when people say stuff like. It’s such nonsense.
In high school, you can pull it off with hard work. But eventually, there’s a wall. Nobody was getting through my organic chemistry college class for premed without having something beyond time and sticktuitiveness, which was kind of the point. I do think you can learn to learn better, which is essentially what we think of as intelligence. I always have a few determined hard workers that start as helpless handraisers, and I’m shocked at how poor their base knowledge is, but will have impeccable notes and always pay attention. Many times, they just don’t have resources, so my job shifts from my subject to how to manage their schoolwork.
@MissNicklaus
My first class after a 10-year gap between HS and college was a basic studies skills course. I had cruised through HS but college, majored in science. I would never have gotten good grades without it. Later on in OC, I was still using index cards and models to help. I had tested as high IQ back in HS, but that didn’t mean much without the grind of study, practice, good grasp of the prerequisite math, and basic Chem. Teachers like you who are willing to help students learn how to learn are golden.
No, that would leave 50% of students not doing well in school by default. It also goes against the idea that learning is a skill that requires practice to be effective.
SarahBrown said:
No, that would leave 50% of students not doing well in school by default. It also goes against the idea that learning is a skill that requires practice to be effective.
Do you know what schools generally do to deal with huge swaths of struggling, underperforming students? They lower the bar. I graduated in 2002 and I had a teacher in high school who would not give you a test unless you’d turned in 100% of his homework assignments. Didn’t matter what exam it was, if you hadn’t handed in all your homework he’d give you a copy of the class textbook and the assignments you’d missed, when you handed them in you got your test. When I was teaching in NYC public schools starting in 2015, the lowest grade we were allowed to give students was a 45 and that was only if they turned in literally nothing. If a student turned in a paper that was blank except for their name that technically counted as some level of completing the assignment and the lowest score you could give was a 55.