@Mia
Tutoring of somewhat younger children can be a great way for smart children to provide community service and solidify what they have learned in the classroom. Forcing them to assist the teacher by denying them an education and forcing them to tutor their same-age peers is just bad educational policy.
@Mia
You’re not understanding. A little help here and there is fine, but how it is being used and framed now is that smart kids are expected to teach slow learners and they not only get very little in return to progress their knowledge at their pace, they are often thrown in the back of the room and ignored. I am living this right now with my son so don’t lecture me about how this is just perfectly fine. It isn’t. It’s abusive, and it needs to stop.
@MarieraArteaga
That free child labor looks quite attractive amirite! Seriously. If I catch wind of my child’s school trying to teacher-ify her I’ll say, ok then, but you’re going to pay her the going rate. /s
@Jane
We’re now resorting to that argument. It’s raising some eyebrows, but it’s also putting them on notice that their it’ll help them in life skills excuse for being lazy is not working for us.
MarieraArteaga said:
@Jane
We’re now resorting to that argument. It’s raising some eyebrows, but it’s also putting them on notice that their it’ll help them in life skills excuse for being lazy is not working for us.
Is your child keeping a log of dates, start and stop times for times they are asked to assist in teaching others? Make it objective. It’s like chores at home. An appropriate level is fine, and even beneficial, but there is a point where the line is crossed into harm territory.
@Jane
Harm territory. Yep. Was proud of him yesterday. He informed the teacher that he would allow 15 minutes in class for him to help others, and the rest of the time was his personal time to do his work. When a kid went to him during his personal time, he helped the kid, but then went up to the teacher after and told him he needs to sheriff these situations better. We’ll see over the next few weeks if the teacher is supportive. Last year the teacher was full of himself and didn’t.
@MarieraArteaga
I would argue the smart kids can also learn helpful skills by socializing with all kinds of people. It’s not like there is no value on the students who don’t meet the standard.
helon said:
@MarieraArteaga
I would argue the smart kids can also learn helpful skills by socializing with all kinds of people. It’s not like there is no value on the students who don’t meet the standard.
The smart kids don’t benefit. They are in the advanced class to learn more complex material at a faster pace. Teaching the on-level kids basic skills & knowledge doesn’t help them master the higher level material.
@RaeganRevord
Absolutely agreed. Teaching information absolutely does help one master it, and honors students should be teaching other students high level material for that reason. Practicing explaining things is a great technique! I have my class do that with one person scribing and the other explaining all the time. However, what it’s being used for - teaching basic skills - is a huge misstep. That’s where the teacher or the aide should be. If you’re going to break off a small student led group with your honors kids, it needs to be at their level.
@RaeganRevord
Lacking skills is not equal to lacking intelligence. Smart children can learn many skills from other peers who are very different from them, such as not assuming you’re smarter just because you have more resources available, understanding inequality, empathy, and listening actively to different perspectives without reacting like your experience is the only valid argument.
helon said:
@MarieraArteaga
I would argue the smart kids can also learn helpful skills by socializing with all kinds of people. It’s not like there is no value on the students who don’t meet the standard.
That’s the argument that’s used all the time and it’s tiresome. It quickly turns into an excuse not to do the hard work of trying to challenge our brightest. Just today my son got frustrated that he was asked to teach one of the slower kids and he couldn’t spend any time advancing his learning. I would be fine if that happened occasionally, but it’s been happening day in and day out for several years now. The teachers want him to do their job for them, and when it comes to his education they simply throw their hands in the air and say they can’t give him advanced material, sorry! It’s bullshit.
helon said:
@MarieraArteaga
I would argue the smart kids can also learn helpful skills by socializing with all kinds of people. It’s not like there is no value on the students who don’t meet the standard.
This is AP Bio, Tina, not finishing school.
helon said:
@MarieraArteaga
I would argue the smart kids can also learn helpful skills by socializing with all kinds of people. It’s not like there is no value on the students who don’t meet the standard.
As a student years back I got to experience both sides of this. In English I had to help the kids who refused to learn because I was so quiet and helpful. I don’t think those kids actually learned anything from me. In math I was frequently put into unasked for/did not sign up for tutoring with other students with better grades. It didn’t matter how much extra tutoring they put me through, I still didn’t understand the material and didn’t pass the tests. My grades in math didn’t go up until I started asking other Teachers to help in high school. Just because a student has good grades doesn’t mean their good teachers. Its fine for them to offer to help but it shouldn’t be on a higher level student to teach a lower level one. Quiet frankly its not their job.
I remember when I was younger my honors classes were merged with regular classes, so I feel from my experience that yes the kids in the honor program are not adequately challenged in regular classes, and I believe it hinders their true ability to learn! So no I don’t believe you are wrong.
This was my experience in graduate school. I was taking graduate class with undergraduates. The expectations of graduate students were higher (greater degree of analysis etc. required) and I had extra papers/work. I’d hate to be the teacher in that scenario
@Noah
Not unusual at the college level, in my experience. For undergrad courses, my school calls it an honors in-course contract. The student signs up to do additional work in return for honors credit. The teacher, on the other hand, just gets to do additional work.
@bernarddeacon
Same thing happens when you combine graduate and undergraduate sections of a course - the grad students are expected to do additional work. That generally only happens with lower level graduate courses (master’s level rather than doctoral level). Usually it’s done either because there’s insufficient enrollment to justify a separate section, or insufficient faculty to teach one.
@bernarddeacon
I’ve seen it work with doctoral students - it’s either a technique class, or a class where the grad students do experimental design and the undergrads focus on theory and learning about practice application. But only in bench-based STEM, where the classes really aren’t that important.
@bernarddeacon
What always got me was if you got your bachelors in a subject then turned around and got your masters from the same school and Major. You would be taking the same classes over with a little extra work (research papers). Three Degrees from three separate institutions so I was challenged a little more.